Dr. Gabrielle Lyon on Muscle-Centric Medicine, Keto-veganism, Eliminating Estrogens and more

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon on Muscle-Centric Medicine, Keto-veganism, Eliminating Estrogens and more

welcome to the muscle expert podcast
with ben pakulski one of the world’s top professional bodybuilders and expert on
human performance and mindset mastery Ben dives deep to deliver the strategies
of the top experts to upgrade your body mind muscle strength performance
biochemistry and how to become the upgraded modern man join us on benpakulski.com to learn
the cutting-edge techniques to take control of your body your brain and
create your greatest life hey what’s up ladies and gents muscle
expert podcast ben pakulski and today we’re gonna interview dr. Gabrielle Lian
she is a fellowship-trained nutrition and cognition physician she’s got her
own center called the Ashe Center for comprehensive medicine in Manhattan and
this lady is integrating everything when it comes to optimizing muscle and you
guys are gonna want to listen to this one because if you like muscle and you
like longevity you’re gonna love this we dive on everything as far as hormones
training environment mindset and you know I’m a geek around mindset doctor
Gabrielle is awesome she’s got an incredible message ladies you’re gonna
love it guys you’re gonna love it don’t forget to leave us a review and share
and I look forward to all of your feedback have an awesome day and enjoy
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enjoy I couldn’t be more excited about talking to you because you’re doing all
the stuff that I love like you’re talking about you know obviously muscles
and muscle protein synthesis but also the cognitive aspect which is where my
brain is shifting now I love it it’s it’s so awesome what do you get excited
about that tell me I want to hear about like what gets you pumped up in the morning
so it’s really interesting I’m a functional medicine practitioner I have
a practice on 61st and Fifth Avenue in New York City
it’s really about optimizing muscle tissue for people it changes the
trajectory of their life right and if you think about it I mean so you come
from a sporting background there is this kind of trajectory where people are
really kind of like young and have a lot of bravado and it maintained all this
muscle and then something happens right the whole dad bod or whatever and then
the trajectory of Aging really part of that is because they don’t do the right
things to maintain the muscle integrity and with the loss of muscle integrity
comes the loss of cognitive right it causes cognitive decline as well you
know I did my fellowship at Wash U at st. Louis yep I did
obesity medicine and geriatrics and cognition so really kind of getting
people on track to age well and have a lot of longevity is amazing
what is the cause so from your obviously research and experience what’s causing
that degradation of the muscular integrity to use your term is it just
lack of activity is it a hormonal degradation so there’s it’s a
multifactorial kind of complex issue the fibers that we typically lose as we age
are the bulk fibers the strength fibers which is why you see people age they
kind of shrink there’s that natural inclination to happen but it doesn’t
have to people tend to work less hard as they age sure you know the hormonal
shift and then also the mind frame right I know that you’re really interested in
the mental capacity of training the individuals mind frame and ability to
tolerate hard physical labor and really having to push themselves also changes
you think it’s a fear thing because they’re afraid of hurting themselves or
is it because they no longer have an incentive to look and to look great yeah
I think that there is that loss of intrinsic motivation that happens and I
think that the society that we live in it’s so easy to become complete
then internally complacent unless you’re constantly sharpening yourself you know
iron sharpens iron and really the to maintain the physical prowess and to
really maintain that metabolic organ which is muscle requires a whole
different attention as you age I’ve been doing a lot of digging lately just kind
of personally geeking out about androgens effect on neurotransmitters
and my theory obviously is everyone ages their mitochondria start to
down-regulate and and lose function and then they’re by hormone hormones aren’t
produced as well and then it goes into neurotransmitters this massive cascade I
think it’s just it has to be hormones right and if we just augment hormones it
seems as though our motivation will be increased because dopamine won’t drop
and then maybe we’ll be more inspired to Train and just be vigorous and rigorous
at life yeah that’s absolutely right and we know that testosterone and estrogens
are actually neural protective yeah so having hormonal balance is absolutely
neuro protective it’s really this complex symphony that is extraordinary
aging does not have to happen the way that we experience it right like yeah
yeah so what’s getting you excited about you know how are you helping people most
cuz I know you’re doing a ton with functional medicine just helping people
yeah I did a practice and what’s what are you seeing that’s you know moving
the needle the most for people and what are you excited about direction so
people come to me for various specific reasons I see really two groups of
people so I see some of the elite military so seals special operations
very specific kind of group and they are obviously they have muscle mass and
really we’re looking for metals and inflammation and keeping their nervous
system together and then the other part of my practice is people with metabolic
impairments so you’ve got women that have yo-yo dieted their whole life you I
have men with low testosterone that are now kind of transitioning to a higher
estrogen state and really when people come to me it’s all about muscle centric
medicine so I’m a special you know I love that term I want you to
tell me all about that term because that I think you’re on this this path to
literally revolutionize the paradigm of fitness industry and I’m trying to do
the same thing we could talk about that later but you have you have a very such
an awesome focus and I want you to tell me all about it because everyone
deserves to hear about this yeah absolutely so muscle is you know we
always thought about muscle in terms of locomotion and strength and kind of the
architecture of the body but it’s actually the infrastructure it’s almost
right it is responsible for metabolic regulation it’s responsible for glucose
metabolism it’s responsible for lipid oxidation it’s anti-inflammatory it’s
responsible for growth you were talking about hormones and all of these things
so we focus as a society on being over fat but we’re actually under muscled
right muscle is actually an organ it’s an endocrine organ it secretes all kinds
of things right so you know you have a cardiologist who’s a specialist for the
heart a pulmonologist for the lungs but we have nobody talking about this muscle
the organ of longevity and as you age you have to eat and train in a very
specific way to keep that tissue healthy you no longer contain the way that you
did in your 20s and 30s it doesn’t work right I’m loving the message more and
more I love it the quiet mmm it’s crazy so you know I do come from a community
of functional medicine and then within that community there is also a lot of
vegetarianism and a lot of veganism sure and what I see right and I’m fellowship
trained so I trained at Wash U and st. Louis I did a clinical research and I
did patient care so what we found was the people that really struggle later on
in life were vegans and really strict vegetarians because we know that bone
and all of these things are made of proteins so that is a long-winded way of
saying what gets me excited and it’s really about bringing the truth kind of
eliminating the bro science and the opinion and the emotion and really
bringing true facts to the forefront to help these people yeah you know just
watch wait you know what you don’t know can hurt you and
especially as you age I feel as though you’re the only doctor that I’ve come
across or the only person that’s having this conversation from a holistic
perspective like you’re looking at it from all these angles and that’s the way
we should be looking at right that’s the way I look at it and I’m like why isn’t
anybody else having this conversation I literally think you’re gonna be the one
that’s shifting the paradigm of the fitness industry because or at least
being the catalyst for change right and making people aware of like hey man you
have to take care of this this is you’re probably mean you can argue that which
one’s your post most important organ but there it’s it’s such an important aspect
to everything and people are talking about like you say diabetes and
inflammation listenings it’s so easy to mitigate those things just by exposing
yourself to a little bit of exercise yeah so what are the first intervention
strategies you’re applying let’s say we got a Navy SEAL because that’s a really
interesting demographic that people are really diving into right now so someone
who’s you know high end any type of you know a Army Navy Marine whatever it is
what is what is the first kind of intervention strategy to help optimize
their performance because they’re not just normal people they’re looking to be
like you know cognitively yeah sharp is a knife so it’s really interesting
there’s kind of two extremes for my experience of treating these people
they’re the ones that are really into functional medicine and are doing ozone
therapy and are very dialed into their macros and are really really aware those
guys are much easier so they’re first-line intervention is really about
keeping their nervous system on track and those guys are meditating so it’s
really about adaptogenic herbs and then measuring their vitamin status or their
omegas where they need to be where’s their glutathione you know what kind of
nutrients are very specific to them and then there’s more of the I don’t want to
say reckless but the more rough-and-tumble sure are not so open
it’s the same thing like in my sport right you get the guys who are actually
using their brain you get the guys who are just working really hard and both of
them make it really far but when you speak about longevity there’s certainly
something to be said for someone taking care of themselves totally and so the
first line for the guys getting ready for buds I just had a patient who just
completed buds and then I have an two Navy SEAL right now that we’re
really working on doing some of the basic stuff and that’s actually just
cleaning up the diet making sure that the protein and the calories are where
they need to be and reducing inflammatory type things so talk about
that because what does that mean like what types of things are you removing
because I think people need to hear that stuff as much as you and I think it’s
common knowledge not everyone knows like hey what we say cleaning up the diet
were you’re moving to optimize the nervous function so it’s interesting
because there’s a lot of question as whether this is bro science or real
science but I can only tell you from clinical perspective that there are a
lot of people with gluten sensitivities and a lot of people with dairy
sensitivities it doesn’t mean that they’re allergic but it really creates a
lot of brain fog because there’s kind of this inflammatory cascade and in my
clinic we measure lymphocyte reactivity so we have one of the original
researchers or one of the I shouldn’t say original researchers but a very
prominent researcher in the NIH developed this study called the LRA and
so we utilize that when it comes to sensitivities for all kinds of foods and
eliminating gluten dairy always seems to come up for these people and so really
kind of just pulling that back and putting in high quality protein and less
of the package type stuff and high quality carbohydrates like sweet potato
brown rice quinoa really kind of streamlining their nutrition great yeah
so I mean as far as the gluten thing is it’s a it’s my argument with people is
is it bro science or not I don’t know but 90% of people that I encounter have
an issue with it it’s not helping you in any way
so just removing it can only be better could only be beneficial right there’s
nothing good about it’s not like you’re weighing good and bad it’s like either
it’s it’s gonna be neutral or it’s gonna be bad so just take it out for most
people right not everybody some people can do okay with it but it seems as
though like many lectins anything it’s obviously a dose-dependent type thing
and if you’re taking too much it’s gonna be affect it’s gonna affect you yeah
absolutely so really streamlining the nutrition is
is really important and then of course base
fundamentals in terms of getting your macros right it matters so whether a
food is not inherently a bad food whether it’s a ground bison or sweet
potato the imbalance of either or you know really getting you know food is
medicine it’s a nutritional science yeah so what
you put in your body and the amounts and the macronutrient ratios completely
affect our insulin and your metabolism and really sets you up for being sharp
cognitively or it can also create kind of cognitive decline in all these
inflammatory processes so what’s the ratios are you looking at for optimizing
let’s say we say a Navy SEAL and is it how individualized is it or do you have
like a starting base baseline where you say okay you start here and then we’ll
adapt according to how your body responds it depends on activity level
and weight right lean muscle tissue so if it’s a big guy right I always you
know I am definitely you know I was trained under dr. Donald layman so I
always err on the side of high protein and that’s gram least a gram per pound
of lean tissue right and then we also know that you need 30 to 50 grams
especially if it’s a guy to actually maximize the muscle protein synthesis
because we don’t want just a baseline stimulation of amatory you really want
to max out this how much I’m considering certain interruptor how much e
considering sources of protein so obviously ya know it’s huge how much are
you a proponent of you know avoiding pesticides and things like that and how
is that playing into their overall performance at health whatever they can
get in is is really important so it doesn’t really matter I mean obviously
if it can be organic fantastic but if not that’s okay you know and also I
treat a lot of other athletes I have a race car driver PGA golfer so really
kind of the core fundamentals are the same for everybody high-quality protein
we know plant is totally different than animal protein you know that these
protein digestibility scores none of that matters it really matters
about the branched-chain if you’re talking about you know muscle protein
synthesis and optimization you require leucine there’s no question about it no
one’s eating six cups of quinoa you know to get your equivalent of a chicken
breast I know you’re going down that road it’s you know so since my exit from
body below nanoo I’ve retired from bodybuilding for twelve months and I’ve
been eating a predominantly plant-based diet but I meet with every meal but it’s
like I eat plants and then just a little bit of meat a little bit relative to
what I was eating in my my body really create so I’ve got in the last three
months I’ve had ten people come out and asked me if I would coach them for vegan
bodybuilding your vegetarian bodybuilding as I’m literally thinking
my brain like if we were perfect with everything could someone be successful
as a body meeting we augment you know BCA’s we augment totally essential amino
very curious your opinion on that because obviously your tour and and
piqué specialist I’m actually really glad you asked that question because I
think that there are individuals that have a particular phenotype that can do
amazing vegan and vegetarian I think the percentage of people that
can do that well is very small but I have seen patients be kedo vegan and
vegetarian and vegan and do phenomenal it’s really and I think it’s a keto
vegan yeah the forefront you know I’m actually just starting to do this I have
a good friend Ralph Esposito you should definitely have him on he worked under
Peter D’Adamo and what we’re starting to look at is jeans so you run the 23 years
on ancestry and you put it through this the system called opus 23 and you look
at the genetic capacity to handle really particular feeding particular diets I’m
telling you you can be vegan and vegetarian if and you’ll know within
your genetic makeup if you can do that opus 23 giving you the entire renown of
your genetic code or is it just specific to your nutrition so I’m very new to it
and I use it very specifically for body composition optimization and I am by no
means an expert in gene translation in these things yes anybody is yet to be
honest like I mean I’ve been discussing it actually had dr. Daniel
Reardon on who’s the guy who created Fitness genes it really I mean there’s
obviously think there’s the people who are actually in the lab doing the
research and they’re obviously experts but as far as people in the fitness
industry I think it’s it’s so so diverse and there’s so many interactions like
you know one gene is signal is coding for one thing and you get something else
that’s completely knocking it out of the so many interactions that I think it’s
just too new yeah and you know and I’ve had other people say that as well they
think that it’s very new it’s definitely if we can figure out who you know and
then of course then there’s the clinical experience of trial and error you’ve
gone more plant-based and feel amazing I think there’s I’m trying to lose
muscle to be honest like if I was if I was not trying sorry that shit sounds
blasphemous I know but like I walked around at 310 pounds for that’s it 15
years right so now I’m down to 270 and I feel like I can run a marathon right so
I want I just you know walking around 310 pounds for anyone it’s not healthy
so I’m trying to downsize a little bit not try to get smaller just downsize a
little bit yeah there’s you know what is it something
that I utilized in my clinic is I do think intermittent fasting and you know
fasting mimicking diet for say a week five days five to seven days is
phenomenal I do think I take breaks on eating protein once you know I would say
probably once every eight weeks I go a week where I’m pretty vegan and very low
calorie and I think that there you know I think it’s important to not be so
dogmatic in thinking and really being flexible medically flexible in your mind
but there there is some really good research out there for up elation of all
kinds of things to help longevity and and the body reset hormones everything
so giving you my experience and I thought you want to hear it but when I
was as a bodybuilder I was so focused like most body blows on consumption
consumption consumption and my energy sucked my training started to fade
sometimes now like I haven’t eaten yet today it you know once a week all fast
most of the day I might have one meal and my energy the next day you would
presume would be depleted or down or my strength of be down it’s actually
not in any ways just my body’s adapted and learned how to use the nutrients
that I that I’m eating way more effectively now that I study more about
mitochondria I understand why you know so many people are especially in the
fitness industry or anti fasting but now that I do its massive and I suggest
everybody do it I think that’s amazing it’s it’s the it’s the nutritional
strategy of the future it’s the intervention of the future mm-hmm so
talking about mTOR and ampk because I know your your big yet you know
optimizing this muscle organ give people most people don’t understand the
intricate mechanisms can you give a little bit of a insight into just
starting with those yeah well I could give them the most important the most
important pieces that I talk to my patients about all the time so mTOR
signaling is required for muscle protein synthesis I’m tor signaling they also
say is you know causes cancer and all of these things right and what the biggest
trigger of mTOR stimulus is is insulin so these small feedings of carbohydrates
through the day create this chronic stimulation of mTOR and and that is
where you think about cancer and that’s where you think about all of these
things as opposed to having a bolus protein meal which requires a minimum of
30 grams you know two and a half grams of lucy to stimulate this cascade which
this cascade is essentially a growth mechanism and anything below that
doesn’t trigger it in terms of muscle protein synthesis and then you’ve got of
course the high carbohydrate feeding which is negative in terms of chronic
stimulation of amatory synthesis which they think is related to cancer although
i haven’t seen any you know complete evidence of that to be honest that’s one
of the reasons why I was so adamant about you know less protein in my diet
now and you know even less regular feedings because for 20 years I was
trying to be the biggest human on the planet I know that I was constantly
anabolic m2m torrent or insulin like constantly
so there’s got to be some negative I mean my brain says there’s got to be
some negative effects to trying to accumulate that much tissue for 20 years
any thoughts so I don’t I don’t I totally appreciate that in I’ve thought
a lot about it and I don’t think that that is the issue in terms of negativity
I think that when you are then over 40 the chronic stimulation of mTOR becomes
an issue but I think when you’re younger it’s okay but back to what you’re saying
in terms of feeding and allowing the mTOR signaling to reset I think is key
but there has been no evidence to link with cancer in terms of protein and
cancer is not true what so you know what is it about that
you know over 40 demographic in your opinion that says you know we should
start maybe not constantly stimulating him too because between 40 and 60 you
know you’re really at that window for things to go wrong oncogenic cancer wise
so you really want to limit any kind of external triggers that could cause that
to happen so the multiple protein boluses you you know you know I don’t
know if that’s true when I think of em torn I think of cancer
I think multiple carbohydrates and excess calories being the problem
because that’s actually if you really think about it the bigger driver of mTOR
signaling I feel as though you know it’s so massively to do with mitochondrial
function and as long as you’re exercising tell me these people all the
time your margin for error with the nutrition it goes so much greater
because if your mitochondria constantly turning over ATP and constantly
functioning properly and have properly cellular Sinise’s doesn’t seem as though
it’s as likely that these cancers things are gonna happen and when you think
about cancer it’s really so that is true exercise is absolutely anti-inflammatory
it’s the excess caloric load and it’s the excess carbohydrate that’s a problem
and I think that everyone demonized is protein and they shouldn’t right so via
jet it’s very agenda driven when it’s kind of like the obvious we’re all
missing the obvious it’s the excess calories and the excess
sugars when you think about insulin and cancer
protein right yeah we shouldn’t even go down the cancer road because that’s just
gonna be controversial all around so you said the other demographic that you’re
dealing with is people with metabolic impairment so I’m guessing that’s a
slightly older population or is that you know what I think metabolic impairment
the first person that comes to mind is like female competitors and I want to go
and not to pick on anybody but you I want to go down the road because like
I’ve worked with so many female competitors that come to me cuz you know
ex coaches secured them up or somebody else has messed up in their diet or they
can’t eating now because you know they get fat or they have to do two hours of
cardio that’s massive metabolic impairment and
I get tons of women that approached me on that topic I’m said love for you to
talk about that absolutely so we know with chronic dieting and overtraining
you get an elevation of reverse t3 so we know TSH stimulates the thyroid to
generate t4 then t4 is converted in the tissue to either t3 or reverse t3 so
when I measure these women that have had metabolic derangement usually the
reverse t3 is through the roof which means that the metabolically active
aspect of their thyroid hormone is not working and although I do come from a
very functional medicine approach I I want to get these women out of distress
quickly I often put them on straight t3 to help liberate those binding receptors
do you think that’s the so long term what’s going to be the best strategy to
start influencing the decrease in reverse t3 you definitely have to pull
back their training and start to overfeed them a little bit and that’s so
hard like it’s exactly what I think right and trying to you know the idea of
reverse dieting for people it’s it’s such a mind game for people to start
saying okay we’re gonna train less and we’re gonna eat more and it’s
progressive most people have our time and I want to
get into the cognitive aspect cuz obviously that that’s also right in your
wheelhouse yeah yeah so talking about the cognitive effects Orser I guess the
cognitive intervention strategies with that so understanding their why why are
you doing this you know ultimately finding something
that means more to them than a physical external experience is really key right
so what is the underlying driver of you know a really kind of understanding how
they got where they are leveraging that perspective and really changing their
mind help them facilitate kind of a mind shift or an aha moment those are the
people that get the biggest success right because we all have to have
short-term sacrifice for long-term gain it’s just the way that it is any
interventions as far as analyzing female hormones so like you said your that
you’re my second female guest and I want to give the female demographic a really
you know valuable tidbit nugget of information regarding hormone
optimization and physique optimization specific to women because I literally
get so many women that are angry with me that I say you know I always talked to
men on my podcast you know I’m a man I don’t want to be the I don’t want to
claim to be the authority for women you’re certainly an authority for men
and women so giving the female demographic some insights as to how they
can up to my thyroid how they can optimize you know the so many levels are
progesterone and estrogen and what should they be looking at so it’s really
about if we you can’t fix what you don’t test so it’s kind of like well how much
do I weigh well I don’t really know how much you eating well you don’t really
know because we’re not tracking it so the first and most important thing that
all your women listeners can do is get good functional testing so my women with
meta with kind of any kind of endocrine issue we do 28-day saliva tests oh wow
so you measure you don’t just measure snapshot in time if you’re gonna do a
blood test it should be the week before their period but a lot of these women
aren’t menstruating yeah so you really want to take a look at what their
hormones are doing throughout a 28-day cycle I have one competitive CrossFit
athlete and we’ve really worked hard on getting her cycle back and you know we
did it through testing and then of course you want to measure your iodine
your an iodine another great test is a organic acid
test and that I’m sure your yeah absolutely you kind of look at the whole
picture you look at all their thyroid function you look at or moans and then
you you kind of assess where they’re at and where they’re comfortable 28-day
cortisol test is that once a day are you doing that hormone test okay so explain
that to me so I thought I thought you said it was a saliva test right you said
it’s a saliva test and it tests estrogen progesterone really yeah all the
estrogens all the progesterone and what they do through the woman’s 28 days and
how accurate is a saliva test I’m not familiar yeah so a lot of the
traditional MDS really like blood tests yeah you know the percent accuracy I
can’t tell you do know that it is that it is pretty accurate and institutions
like a forum really focus on saliva testing no fascinating I had no idea
that it would be I knew cortisol was very relevant in saliva but I didn’t
realize they could test for progesterone in history so you can and especially I
do a lot of hormone replacement and if you do hormone replacement that is
topical it’s much better to do a saliva test unless you know unless they’re
injecting themselves with something then you would do a blood test
hmm interesting good to know so you’re saying you’re doing hormone intervention
where does it start for most people what is the most common one you see is it
gonna be you know given people estrogen you’re getting progesterone the most
common thing I see is estrogen dominance okay so their estrogen is just through
the roof and they’re not making progesterone so and that’s a big thing
okay so most competitors go to mail coaches not that you know we have to
talk about competitors but most of them will go to nail coaches and the coach
will say we’ll go take Nava Dex go take an Astros all right can you talk about
that yeah so that’s it that’s a tricky topic because you know I’m not sure it’s
necessary I agree that’s why we know I mean from the very obvious nough sub why
you are a woman why would you want to do that right estrogen
we need to do something about it you know give people some really valuable
takeaways you know different strategy rather than having to give so for
example calcium D glue great there’s other ways to kind of read the body of
estrogens and you’re talking about keeping the best athletes in the world
the people with the most longevity have a balance even if that balance is
extreme they can still have a balance of lower estrogens and lower progesterones
right for a short period of time where they’re competing it doesn’t mean you
have to be so drastic and completing shutting down a female hormonal system I
mean you’re gonna be in for a world of hurt if you’re eating things like
Christopher’s vegetables if you’re even augmenting your progesterone right to
balance out that estrogen dominance you should be able to get lean and as long
as you’re training and eating well there’s ways that you can do it to
protect yourself awesome oh you know I mean it’s the first thing that I would
do is I would not use obviously in a room iudex I would use something like
calcium deep blue Krait or dim have them have surfer’s vegetables have them doing
infrared having a happy nighttime nighttime progesterone even low dose
naltrexone is an anti-inflammatory helps regulate the hormonal system so there
are other things without that without something crazy then of course there’s
the whole visualization and really kind of programming fix you know what kind of
athlete they want to be how are they seeing success of what they’re doing you
know that’s not something crazy at all that’s the direction that I think the
fitness industry needs to go and needs to start realizing the necessity of that
and you know I don’t know how much you’ve paid attention to the
conversations that might have in the podcast but you know for growing up
we’re all attached to the external outcome right we’re all attached to the
external stimulus the external in is faster jump higher whatever it is when
it comes to physique enhancement and longevity it’s all about the internal
response to the external stimulus so I really believe that you know the
visualizations the meditations the all those things are absolutely necessary
interventions if you’re trying to create this internal environment that mitigates
stress that allows your body to actually do what you want it to do
it’s massive people just are blind to it absolutely and it’s it’s really it’s key
and I think that you’re right on that cutting edge I think you’re right and I
think that you’re having insights and if if you know through you talking about it
in your community really raising awareness of that that’s really gonna
push the whole body building that whole community to the next level it’s
literally spreading the word and collaborating with people like yourself
who are also thinking on that level and just tying all the missing pieces
together right like you seemed like I said your take you’re looking at every
aspect and creating this awesome internal cascade to optimize longevity
optimize muscle function hormone function and you’re doing exactly what
everyone needs to be doing and people need to be listening to you walking into
the conversation that you brought up about infrared saunas that’s a I want to
talk about that and I’m comfortable you feel but talking about environmental
strategies that people can start implementing to make the most of their
muscles their hormones their longevity so not just dietary not just training
but other other you know to use the catchphrase bio hacks
so I use that’s a great question all of my patients use heat therapy I stick
them in a hot sauna the temperature and they’re safe like depends it’s either if
they’re doing conventional sauna it’s at least one 76 mm or so and then if
they’re doing infrared I’m not sure what I think that’s like 155 but it’s really
about kind of the waves and that internal kind of ambient heat what I
would I utilize with that is I give them high dose niacin for lifelessness and
flushing what was I dose 500 500 over a thousand I increment I push them up of
course they can have hypertension or blood sugar issues and it really just
opens up everything it sucks I do it all the time I’m I’m used to it
now but when I used to like when I started it’s terrible it’s you’re so
uncomfortable he’s sitting there h-he and burning in the song it’s a terrible
thing but it’s so effective what does two years I was up to three grams but
I’m but I titrated I started at 500 and I
went to yeah I went to 3 grams and so I mean that’s amazing I always use heat
therapy and then afterwards I give them some chlorella or clay I give them some
kind of binder beautiful that’s yeah eating anything pre sauna to help their
body start to flush toxins just like hey get in there and sweat it out with the
niacin sometimes I give them alpha q to glue to rate give them alpha cuticle
iterate and niacin but nice and it’s really the big one do you have all these
therapies in your clinic I do I don’t how cool
any thoughts on so you know this is just coming to mind so my brain and yours is
this way too is you know the idea of getting away from the treatment of
illness and disease and bringing people back to health optimization any focus or
opinion on IV vitamin therapy do use anything do we have a hole in our center
we have about 4000 square feet and we have a whole IV room I do a lot of
there’s a lot of good evidence for high-dose vitamin C therapy for anti
cancer inflammation I we use it all the time we go 10 to 75 grams I mean we
really we really go for it we had a mole deduplication Pro you know mole
detoxification bags we have everything I love that so I’m the guy doing the 75
grams of vitamin C I do it about once a month yeah I mean I’ve been doing it for
years I really feel as though it works I mean I have I’m gonna knock on wood
haven’t been sick in five years but and I feel awesome
and I don’t recommend most people these 75 grams of I’ve talked about the mold
protocol because most people aren’t even aware that mold exists and I live in
Florida and mold is everywhere and what concerns should people be having around
mold some mold is a huge problem I’m seeing it in my clinic I actually was
exposed to it I got really sick it’s this it’s the new epidemic mold is
definitely you know they’ve talked lime they talked about all the stuff
mold is the new epidemic I’m seeing people that for example can’t lose
weight totally fatigued they’re eating perfectly they’re training well they
feel horrible they’re getting joint pains they they don’t know why they just
are completely tanked and after a while I’m seeing these people thinking like
this is just not it’s not right I have them there’s a company called real-time
labs that mold testing the blood and then I’m thinking of one girl in
particular she is what you would absolutely think about as health trim
lean eating everything perfectly still not getting better been to for
functional medicine doctors I had her home inspected they said it was one of
the worst homes of mold that they’ve ever seen terrible I mean just people
are gonna get really sick and actually it creates a systemic inflammatory
response so we think go to the doctor everything’s fine you know but the GI
system is a complete mess mold is an issue so that’s what’s happening is it
attacking the GI is attacking mitochondria from your opinion what is
it attacking and what’s the first line of intervention well it’s attacking
every system I’ve seen tons of Hashimoto’s patients that are actually
underlying mold the interventions you have to you have to remediate you have
to get an air filter you have to move I will usually put them through
detoxification saunas and then IV therapy so it has vitamin C sodium
bicarb taurine B vitamins trace minerals you have to up regulate the body’s
detoxification process and then of course you’ve got cholestyramine in
these binding agents you’ve had some pretty successful interventions with
people with removing mold yep good yeah cuz I know that’s a huge thing I mean
you know we had mold in my house one here once I’m here in Florida and
literally I was like alright tear the whole thing out we’re moving or you
taking this whole room out it’s it’s legitimately like a scary scary thing
especially we’ve got little kids so you know a massive concern yeah
alright so now I’m gonna pry into your life how do you train what are you how
do you my question is always how do you work hard so I work hard I try to work
as hard as I can every day I and it’s been really interesting so I
actually so I was a fitness figure competitor for a long time and then I
started doing Crossfit and then I moved from CrossFit to seal fit I don’t know
if you’ve heard of Mark de Meyer I do much very well
okay Mark’s amazing he’s a mentor of mine and I was training for Kokoro and I
bowls my hamstring and my hip so it has been a 80% of bowls right hamstrings so
it’s been about a two-year rehab process you ask me how I work hard I’ve had to
really cut it back and I’ve had to do I’ve done PRP multiple rounds of stem
cell and I’m at the last stem cell this will be number four it’s still bad I
have one more to go when I should be totally healed so in terms of working
hard it’s really for me it’s about working smart so I can do I do three met
cons a week very short high intense high intensity and then in terms of lifting
it’s all about movement for me right now so tell me about your metcon training
rowing right so it’s 500 meter rows under 2-minutes followed in between
that’s my question what’s your time 500 meters then I get competitive with you
now or the skeered okay do multiple rounds of that you know mm-hmm yeah I
mean it’s so fun but I have to be so much smarter now
terms of healing okay awesome and nutritionally you talked about doing
some some fasting from time to time nighttime routines that people obviously
know sleep is a massive component and I’m sure you’re a big proponent of
optimize sleep what should people be doing to optimize sleep to improve
muscle function and longevity well in terms of sleep having some great
magnesium right so you have magnesium before you go to bed really high doses
magnesium malate magnesium glycinate or magnesium three
mate which crosses the blood-brain barrier those are the in turn there’s
are the external things that you can take there’s also the internal work
which is kind of recapitulation reviewing your day writing it down
identifying the things that really went well and the things
that didn’t go so well and reformulating your day for the next day I love that
you bring this stuff up and to be honest you’re the most well-rounded
practitioner that I’ve talked to in the last five years so congratulations
honestly you’re doing you’re doing awesome and I love what you’re doing I’m
gonna send everybody your way anything you want to tell people about you know
one last final thought on what they should be thinking about to live their
greatest life obviously we’ve talked about everything from hormone
optimization to muscle optimization to training and sleep and meditation one
other one thing you do that you believe creates your greatness
I always review everyday my why why I’m doing what I’m doing and every action I
take that has to be able to fit into that why why am i this person why am I
giving this recommendation why am I reading this time.this why am i spending
time doing this it has to relate back to my greater
purpose which is kind of educate to educate humanity and help them live well
right to be is there’s so much false information how can I help people really
take what you need so they can be the best version of themselves because
ultimately we’re just investable right how do they care for their vessel so
they can have their highest purpose be expressed love it we’re talking the same
language every day this is fantastic I’m so grateful to have connected with you
every L where can people reach you they can find me on instagram at dr.
gabrielle Lyon or my website and that’s dr. Gabriel I’m calm I’m on Facebook I’m
just working on that I’ve been kind of out of social media for a long time but
I there’s no other way what is 2018 have in store for you a lot of teaching so
right now I’m going to be doing a lot of lecturing and teaching and I really need
to get my book finished me too are you traveling around teaching for yourself
are you teaching for like you know February I am teaching for a Charles
Poliquin Muscle centric medicine so you guys should all come to that where’s
that be me that isn’t in Phoenix that’s February 4th then I am teaching
for the National I’m gonna be on a panel of the National spine conference and
that’s the end of February so those are the two things that I’ve got planned
right now and then a few other things in the works how far along is your book um
very well outlined very well outlined and the introduction is is done all
right I’m gonna hold your feet to the fire to get that out in the first half
of 2018 yeah cuz I’m doing the same so how long is your book about the same as
you I’ve actually so I’ve got two full outlines you know chapter outlines table
of contents kind of thing and one one is really extensive and it’s long so I want
to be a long time but the other one just I’m gonna get done first but that’s the
problem is I always say you know you didn’t say miss me you have one idea
like I really want to do this and the next week you’re like I need to do this
too because they need to go ahead and head so there’s a bit to but my
objectives to do to in 2018 amazing yeah yeah I know you better and I’m gonna be
the first one to be promoting your book so get it out there so we can help you
promote it it’s been so great to connect and I’m so grateful that for what you’re
doing so please keep it up and let’s definitely keep in touch awesome thanks
so much I see a real hey I hope you enjoyed that podcast thank you very much
for listening head on over to iTunes right now and leave me a review let me
know if you loved it let me know if you absolutely hated it either way I need to
know so I can improve my job and bring you guys the best information with
respect to muscle building health optimization and building a better
person building a better man so thank you very much to our sponsors which make
this stuff possible I love for you guys to each head over and check out ATP lab
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they do is third-party tested and proven to be what it is inside the bottle that
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we’re getting the best quality ingredients from anywhere in the world
that provides them thank you also to prime Fitness USA the best equipment for
someone looking to build muscle and make the most of their time I chose to reach
out to prime personally they never reached out to me I reached out to them
because I knew what they had and I really believe in their product and I
brought every one of their pieces into my gym and we still use them every day
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intelligence we are the ones teaching the best people in the world the
smartest people in the world how to build muscle in the least amount of time
another shout out to gasp and better bodies for always taking great care of
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20 thoughts on “Dr. Gabrielle Lyon on Muscle-Centric Medicine, Keto-veganism, Eliminating Estrogens and more

  1. Hey Ben.. I am just wonder if you have heard of Dr. John Doulliar? He wrote a book called Eat Wheat and makes a really compelling argument about most allergies at the root cause are impaired digestive issues that contest the liver and lymphatic system. Just curious on your thoughts?

  2. Ben , this was awesome!! dr Gabrielle was soo informative …i would be huge to do a female exclusive info session…such issues/topics….. dosing comapared to men for supplements and micronutrients, also more on reconizing estrogen dominances, and what a girl can do at the ground level ( no doctor help or medical support)…THanks Ben

  3. One of my absolute favorite episodes so far. Discovered you a few months ago Ben, and you've completely upgraded my training and diet along with a lot of the people you've turned me on to as well. In the middle of Younger You by Braverman right now. Appreciate people like you doing what you're doing. You are making a difference. Please keep up the great work.

  4. This was excellent. Thank you, Dr. Gabrielle Lyon. I just met with my first Functional Medicine Doctor and went through all of the testing. I get my results on July 25th. I'm looking forward to hearing the next steps towards getting me back to optimal health. I enjoyed hearing about "estrogen dominance," heat therapy, low dose naltrexone, niacin, mold detoxification and more. It was very informative and enlightening.

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