Sharon Flynn on Ferment for Good: Water Kefir Grains, Kefir Health benefits | Kefir benefits

Sharon Flynn on Ferment for Good: Water Kefir Grains,  Kefir Health benefits | Kefir benefits

hey guys Kriben Govender from the gut
health gurus podcast I’ve got a background in food science today I have
one of my friends my fermentation friends Sharon Flynn by a popular demand
I do post quite regularly on our Facebook group the gut health gurus on
who people want us to get a hold of and people are just being screaming at me to
get the one and only showing Flynn author of a book called ferment for good
onto the podcast she’s an Aussie and she’s making big
waves in the fermentation world in Melbourne and in Australia Sharon
welcome to the show superstar Sharon you you don’t realize you inspire so many
people in doing so many great things and what we like to do at the start of every
podcast is to get it from the horse’s mouth is Sharon Flint well firstly I’d
say just a army brat you know grew up moving around a lot that really has
defined my character quite a bit because when you move there’s a certain openness
you know you have to make friends easily and then I just kept moving and then
secondly I’m a mom and a stepmom of five kids
well I do add that Who I am definitely of course that because it all the
different personalities in our house add so much to decisions every day and how
we run the business and how we’re able to run the business and my own personal
growth you know well why stop there because you know I’m separated and
repart knit big deal to going through a live growth over the last five years
thinking about that and then lastly I have this amazing growing business
that’s really taken my mind and heart to the last six years
yeah if I if I didn’t have always children
and partners it wouldn’t be as good but I’d love to be able to spend 24/7 on
this little business whole twenties in Japan do I know I should have been
abstinent somewhere with the other tall tall people imagine you’d be sticking
out like a sore thumb in Japan it’s pretty similar to how I am I mean it
works with a lot of younger people and I just I feel like I’m their age until one
of them will say and I felt smaller than I am in Japan and it was only when I was
leaving finally I was like you know after being here for a long time I hired
a friend to come in and replace me in my job and she couldn’t find me I was
working at a girls University high school she was walking all around and
should ask the different security guards with foot in sensei and that would be
like huh everyone calls me jumbo you know after the first two people I just
said do you know where jumbo it’s and I was pregnant at the time too so I was
just like oh that’s an amazing story and if I could just side note that the first
time I ever came across the the fermentor II and that Sharon’s beautiful
business affirmed entry my wife and I often got to Dallas furred to collect
spring water and so we stopped off at this local health food shop and we
bought some work iffy because we’re starting to
get interested in water kefir at that time so we stopped off
oh wow this they’re selling water kefir we opened it and when we opened the it
kind of like it was really busy it was like spraying all over the place and
it’s like oh this is proper water kefir and we tried it and it was the most
amazing water kefir I’ve ever tasted and I just fell in love with the product and
we’ve been huge fans ever since and then then I was in I was pretty much working
in industry for a company called sa brands and this was years and years ago
and they were interested in you sour brands or sa brands and whatever you
want to call I think other ways acceptable and then the the sa brands
people were interested in water kefir and straight away I was like yeah I
gotta reach out to Sharon and Sharon was the most amazing warm welcoming person
she welcomed me into her space and showed me what she does and incredibly
kind and generous soul so I’m very blessed to have Sharon as a friend said
that that’s a side note so Sharon how did you begin this love affair with
fermented foods really when I was in love with it
I didn’t wouldn’t have called it fermented food it was just at the
beginning probably when I was 16 17 I started my my interest in cement of
foods and wild and fizzy interesting flavors and so each time I was an
exchange student in Denmark and they lived in a big old beautiful old pig
farm and they had it was an old house so they had a fridge instead of a large
fridge they had a large walk-in cold room and they put all the meat in the
soups and other leftovers like we would have done in our fridge at home in that
cold room hmm not a cool room literally a room that was just so stone and cold
and things would go a little bit fizzy or they would sour and then she would
say that was on purpose you know and they like to like that they’ll make a
beautiful sweet pie like an apple thing and then put the
soured cream on it and I’d be thinking see you know what that sour you know
that’s not that something’s Iraq and slowly I learned that was that’s what
they were aiming for and it wasn’t dangerous and you know we didn’t need
glad rack and they had local honey and beautiful local milk and it was just
part of their life I’ve never been exposed to that my mum bought flora
marjorine and tip-top white bread and um just like a 70s moment and you know it
was a miracle to her that those things are so convenient now so I grew up with
that and then going there and having just hard butter and fresh food was
pretty mind-blowing and we moved around a lot I lived in Malaysia and Denmark in
my teens and was exposed to a lot of flavours but it was when I moved to
Japan oddly that I started fermenting and I still would never have called it
fermenting I would have said things like oh my god I’m learning so much you know
as a a single Australian woman six foot leader living in this very small country
town an hour outside Tokyo they never had anyone living there like that before
and there are a lot of Australians there now but back in 93 there weren’t people
showed me what they were doing and I had this thing or dinner service in a suit
and that’s like hello fresh now but this was many years ago that’s how I like my
cook because I was too busy and I’d get my little box and it would have the
recipes and I would make the food and and the neighbors down the road and the
ladies in the garden down the hill they showed me you know almost uzuki methods
fell by grabbing my hand and doing you know miso and nacho and nutria and it’s
all fascinating and I was really lucky I mean you might not think I was too
different and all the old people they took they liked me you know and then
then eventually a couple years II and I’ve got some friends and by the time I
got those friends they would come to my house and be like the house looks like a
grandma’s house donated all this weird furniture and stuff
that would have been my first real experience digging my hands and things
and making these beautiful moments but they would have been for me right it was
really writing home to my mum was me so I wouldn’t have said I’m fermenting you
know and then I moved to Chicago where we lives near in a Jewish neighborhood
and I say that was literally the public school had different holiday programs
and things to us learned a lot there and there’s a lot of pickles in the
supermarkets and the little stores that would give you a kid a pickle and their
trolley you know and I just thought that was from the barrel and it was so lovely
and I got interested in that but they didn’t have in my neighborhood who
couldn’t get good bread and I’ve been in Japan so long and it’s just I needed a
good bread so I and then I had two children and I got into making my own
bread and that’s just a moment where I was sprinkling the east on I was like
who makes the yeast actually like and so I went to the Baker and I said how do
you get your niece to go though this you know this block so I was like cool in
here you can just have some so then I felt like next level I was like I’m good
I’m the person who stuck like straight from the Baker and the other point where
I went as well where the hell did you get this block of yeast from you know
what is it and that was all that was happening there and I started making
cheese and buying cultures and watching it on a VHS check how to make cheese so
I was going to this thing we moved to Seattle from Chicago and that’s where I
joined a CSA which is a Community Supported Agriculture have you are you
you’re probably familiar with it it’s where a farmer will decide how many
families they can feed over you in their size light and huge or by paying in
advance so you might pay $800 or 1200 it always feels like quite a lot and and it
should do because then you’re committed this is where I’m getting my vegetables
from for the year if anything goes wrong for that farmer like this floods there
people will come from the city and help out or give more money when they have
abundant you get it too so it’s just this
wonderful thing so ideally a family would say I can feed 20 families for
example and you give them the money in advance they have that they can live off
that for the year and they can plan their planting season for their people
it’s really lovely I happen to be involved with quite a big one because
the animals like that called Jubilee farms look them up if you’re interested
in this and they literally at the beginning you do go $1,200 and there’s
just lettuce you know or it’s just early spring stuff this is a republic you know
when you renew it you do feel kind of annoyed and you start getting veggies
that you like I never use this so now put all these leeks or you know I’ve got
too many Jerusalem artichokes or something but you’ve committed your
money to it so you’re like I’m gonna keep going and buy and there’s summer
you just get so much you know that it’s like take as many watermelons as you
want or if many pumpkins and then they had pickling days and fermenting days
where you could learn to to keep the harvest and that’s the real meaning then
then you’re like okay in abundance you need to hold on to it because next
spring it’s just lettuce again further – well so you know they do you want to do
this for two years you need to get involved in the preserving cart and
sandal Katz was in town and I heard about that and I went not as a guru just
as part of this sort of natural hug thing that they’re doing so I went and
saw that and got his first book it was a little magazine and then he had this
wild fermenting book and I read about sourdough and that’s sort of the answer
I’ve been looking for in Chicago like how the hell do you make bread without
this package and it was that was like almost a spiritual awakening because I
felt that with all my moves everywhere and I was lucky enough to be a full-time
care out of my kids and look after the house and spend time on the food I felt
like I was knowledgeable foodie you know but when I ran about salad I was like I
literally don’t know anything and wow what am I waiting because the what’s
what you don’t see it’s so much that we don’t see that’s so
powerful I got I still get this money I think about that deserves like okay
let’s try it and water and flour and some time made my bread fluffy like what
and why don’t we all know this and what’s happened and I just that was it
for me then I really I went oh I’m gonna you know but then we moved actually on
foot I got through this went through the bread making the cheese making phase
even made my daughter because we’re in America and they do science projects you
know and so I made them do their science projects on we put a grape in the
sourdough the bread flour water and water and flour and a grape water
something else you know and the skittles you know you always have these
assumptions yes it’s like kids like this is terrible you know but the skittle
actually gave us the best result sugar yeah a lot in that science experiment
too you know and don’t be too cookie with your assumptions that was pretty
funny so we did get right into that when we moved to Belgium and I didn’t have
the room to keep experimenting like I was plus I was so busy relocating
everybody and enjoying everything that was there the beer in the bread
everything was good there I didn’t really need to make anything but towards
the end were there for three years the last year my youngest daughter got
really sick no one really knew what it was one of those things that only you
can only really matter which respectively you know because when it’s
happening is sort of this going on cheese that hasn’t fixed yet let’s go
the doctor and it’s funny just started snowballing and I couldn’t pinpoint it
and a few other kids had it in her school but they were older and was this
really random thing we should get a fever every 12 hours at 2:00 p.m. and
2:00 a.m. really high but every time you didn’t know how long it would go for
really like you never got to that relaxed point where you like just relax
it’s going to be finished in 40 minutes because it was
40 degrees sometimes in the wet cheeses and sometimes I would take into the
hospital like and she had so many scans and in the end they said it’s please
strong antibiotic we’ll what else we going to do
so it’ll knock her around a bit and you know when people say that when a doctor
says it’s going to knock you around you think of like I don’t know what do you
imagine it’s gonna do knock you around and I feel a bit tired achy or something
you don’t think it’s gonna work your entire system out of any bacteria and
you’ll suffer for the next year’s you know so she took it and from that moment
she couldn’t really digest food so she would eat something and vomit she lost
weight was on it for and she was a tall kid so she was quite skinny and lanky
you know and she looked pretty skeletal pretty quickly she had all kinds of
other things you know bronchitis and she’d get things and it was just in the
end we were going to the doctor and they were saying things like maybe she has
childhood depression or maybe mum does you know like maybe you’re you you seem
very vulnerable because I would tear up in the doctor’s office trying to tell
them the history of what’s been going on with her why haven’t someone sort of get
to the bottom of it so it was going into the realm of autism spectrum eating
disorder childhood depression and I of course I knew that wasn’t the case is
that to know this is pretty bright first bit so I just had to hunt it down and I
wanted to make plan by then we’ve been on the road literally for 20 years
marriage was not great so I wanted to come home you know sickness can do that
you know can bring out the real the reality of things
mmm came home but before I did a lot of people started talking to me about oh
you know what’s going on and one lady mentioned that her naturopath had said
stop putting stop chasing the virus and perhaps just try and put bacteria back
into her gut and from what the antibiotics might have done and then she
gave me a list of food and all of that all of the things on that list had to be
no hobby so is this like I can do this someone I know you have I mean if you’ve
had someone in your life that needs your help and you haven’t been given many
things to do to deal with it other than medicating and then someone gives you
some kind of empowerment it’s just wonderful because you can go right at
least I’m gonna do this and I’m gonna do it really well and you know let’s go
let’s deal with it so when I got back I kind of I didn’t I got this book the
GATS book hmm I got that book I couldn’t single mom name and I couldn’t do all of
that bone broth cutting everything out really strict singing I would have but
at the beginning was just settling into a new school I put it down a year-around
a very small school and started just adding these things so the first one was
the water Kathy wasn’t but there were few things not Oh yogurt miso just
store-bought yeah and you know just sort of being really aware and then I cut out
the carbs because by then as well and truly one of those people you know I
mean you can go you’re addicted to carbs you’re getting like a glazed look while
you eat this pasta which was in the gaps book you know all these things that the
food and everything else like yes yes yes yeah you know it’s hard not to start
diagnosing all the friends and people that you know along the way when you’re
reading things Thank You Angelica three months three weeks literally she would
wake up and start playing can I have my drink and that was like yeah as much as
that drink as you want and things just started changing she just started eating
them you know and I just kept putting different things
different crowds different meats and kraut and potato and kraut and she just
started eating it and getting better so a lot of people who were going to that
little school notice the change or there were my new
friends and they came over and I talked about it quite Evangelic Lee and I did
have different language back then I was we’re talking about everything I’d read
in the guestbook you know die off die back mm-hmm we’re all waiting for that
to happen and talking about that and then that was a great stage and I was
trying trying to show people how to do it themselves because I was just doing
that then I would have mouths got around and I’d be like well I’ve got so much
here just take it take it I had a few people early on saying this could be a
business and be business partners and things like that but it was usually very
casual arrangement where I was still doing all of the making you know I was
the one with the passion in there like I mean did you keep doing this but what
happened early on I think was attracted a lot of pretty sick people and those
who would say I went to my natural they don’t know anything about it because
this is 2012 13 mmm they’re a catalyst of Schwann catalyst happened and
everyone saw that lovely will saw them said oh I saw that maybe you are right
you know so that was a slow burn so until that came out and research started
mounting to the evidence was there and science wasn’t helping us out I ended up
trying to teach people how to do it themselves and at the end of my lectures
no matter what I’d said people would always go how much should I take I just
want to know that and I really was always left with that’s common in
Australia because I’ve been overseas a lot and the food had been quite
different I’ve been telling these stories to my kids that we’re not sure
you like kids in Australia don’t swear yeah yeah really good lunches and nobody
has small packets of chips or anything you know idea the seventies when I was a
kid at school and none of that was real but also
the food system was pretty crappy you know there wasn’t there were no
fermented foods you could buy other than yogurt with sweeteners and there was
nothing so then I realized oh this is pretty
sick really and people ask me how much I should take when I’m talking about food
what yeah this is delicious food to add to your diet there’s been missing in our
Australian diet for a very long time all there is to it make it or buy it but
they couldn’t buy it so that’s when I started saying where I’ll sell it to you
so I had three fridges in my garage people could come and just put money in
I’d take an esky in my car I started teaching at the girls school and I’d
have an esky there people could take it from the roof of the car and put money
in the jar Wow I don’t like the ladies so I asked the local health food store
can you can you put this in I’m not going to cause any trouble it just like
cribben or you know cribben and here’s the orange one you wanted or little
messages mmm food so we didn’t even give him voices or anything just like in say
oh it’s that $800 no and then if you start a new business I think and you’re
in a smallish town that’s a great way I didn’t I don’t say I didn’t think of it
being great marketing but I didn’t really plan it but people want to have
their name on a tag in a fridge you know they were like why is what’s that you
know what’s going on here my ribbon got his name I want to actually like no
that’s ribbon so people wanted it more and more and while I was still using
funnels and you still use funnels but well still in my home kitchen making
every night while the kids are asleep hmm people from restaurants
going to that store and then corn merely the same can I have this in my
restaurant and I was saying no this is not my intention so I think it was a bad
took me about six months to say I better quit my job and because I’ll make more
per I go making $20 an hour hmm if I sell a bottle for $16 that’s ours work
at school so I did took a big brave step and and did but gosh I didn’t know what
I was getting into when you told me I think you might admit really right then
in there when I was just I just quit my job right I think yeah you were doing
that was it port melbourne or something like that and yet south melbourne yes
and we did and that was the first time i met you your other friend linda Cinzia
he’s going on to do great things as well yeah the smoothie bombs Wow she’s she’s
done so well and so so please for her it’s amazing mmm passion I think the
passion just shines out in what you do because you take so much pride and you
have yes you’re so meticulous and so rigid and the way you do things which is
great because you have your standards it shines in the product and then I’m not
surprised that high-end restaurants would want to reach out to you and get a
hold of that because it’s so difficult to do what you do because the food
industry will shortcut things they’ll use additive
and they’ll use you know different cultures and whatnot to make the product
faster cheaper more efficiently commercially but the way you do things
is small batch by hand incredibly labor-intensive time intensive cost
intensive but the end product is out of this world so I’m so proud of you we do
it’s not a very profitable business that’s for sure
I mean it’s we’re just starting to see where we might where it’s going to you
know the sweet spot we are I mean there’s a point where I was like do I
keep it farmers market you can’t be in the middle because that’s we have to buy
some machinery you have to buy a lot of quantities of jars or something you
can’t afford it it’s pretty tough but I think because I started where I did to
where it was for people that I was talking to and friends with god issues
there’s never been any other way to make the product because I want to be proud I
want to give it to you and be like here taste this this is the real thing and
it’s a rare thing and along the way because I wasn’t in food manufacturing
every ingredient I had to buy I learn more about and thinking that is to know
you know we couldn’t get we can now we couldn’t get organic or sugar in
Australia well we knew what is Queensland in your mind whether you get
shook you notice where you get sugar from and we had to get it from three
lengths or South America but some it’s cheaper to get strawberries frozen from
Chile then to get a farmer to deliver them to you even mmm there’s some really
seriously wrong things and it’s time consuming to find solutions for it but
it always just comes back to we started yes for our family I don’t want to give
my mom my mom my mom so proud and she’ll go to little health food stores when I
first get into it and she’ll buy something but I would hate it for me to
go and drink it you know like getting get the real one from me
it has to be there is still hand jarring that’s
amazing so it’s it’s it’s a real deal it’s definitely real highly encouraged
people go out and find the frumenty products because they’re amazing now
Sharon let’s segue to I guess some of the issues that firstly you’ve
highlighted some of the challenges but what about let’s explore some of the the
other products that are entering the market and comparing that to people
actually do it properly because I do get a bit annoyed that some out there are
riding a trend and putting products in the market because fermented foods are
not regulated in both of us sat in at that session with the Department of
Health so we know intimately the challenges and what’s going on in
industry so some some people actually riding a trend putting products in the
market that are very new it’s very cowboy days so there’s no regulation
around what you can call a product for instance Kefi are welcome which are
prime examples I think the fermented vegetables are pretty good on the market
so that doesn’t really concern me about what’s coming out but what does concern
me for instance if you go into any major supermarket shelf you’ll see the
explosion of keffiyeh kombucha firstly is huge now it’s
mainstream and then secondly keffiyeh which is emerging so let’s let’s talk at
what’s your thoughts on those products how do they compare to product that’s
made that you make for instance with proper kefir grains is that you’re
getting a wide diversity I’d say you know what the Food Standards want is
predictability and consistency they want to know exactly what’s in there so when
you don’t know what’s in there part of the magic you know Aang mmm
nature’s intellect you know this is don’t don’t play with that you know we
don’t know everything and that’s one thing that’s very frustrating to means
in this in the science room with food you’re like don’t manipulators
we have a symbiosis with these things and we don’t know best necessarily we
don’t always know everything and we’re discovering that and you know one thing
is all that mainstream media coming out or the research around gut and brain
health you know oh my gosh when when you sort of sit back here I’ve had that
knowledge for a very long time we just haven’t had the exact details one thing
for sure is so there’s the diversity in the bacteria a lot of the places the
labs that would get our wood it could be a measure I don’t even have the
technology to read what bacteria there that I know them we have to send it I
think it was concern or someone’s told me that there is a place that you do it
so that’s something the next thing is that products are naturally carbonated
and you know I’ve spoken to a lot of food science people and they’re like so
what combination is combination that’s not true because the reason people have
to force carbonate predictability and consistency and everything but also
there’s no carbonation without alcohol right so they’ve been forced to make a
crappy product because of our fear of alcohol and you know times I’ve thought
how do I tell that story at functional alcohol or you know like this is very
low don’t worry about it so we did decide to become licensed so we can keep
the product real it was you know it’s likely for us that’s well nothing I
didn’t want to be making another product that I didn’t want to make my own kids
so the natural fizziness in a drink and having a little bit of alcohol carries
the flavor further in your mouth it feels better
no no need that but in I don’t know if you how much more like it
interesting you probably to NOLA when you spice or something in an acid and an
alcohol it’s intensified and it does its job a lot better it was how we’ve always
given medicines and teachers and so there’s that aspect as well so you’re
missing out on quite a lot of the health benefits when something is folded down
initially when we would like the only water kefir there was and then there was
another one and us lovely it was also people who made them at home themselves
and we’re selling my farmers markets that was crap great when I started
seeing the company like products you know it bother me at the beginning I’ll
be like hey you know that’s not real or that’s in it but it doesn’t bother me as
much anymore I think every industry has its early days gosh think of the wine
industry or beer it would started at this place where it
was cleaning the wall that beer was great for water right purified water
why was just something humans have done and then that’s taken itself off into
this mainstream thing we’ve got cast cast wine and stuff that doesn’t
resemble what you’d make it home so I feel like I can’t be too judgmental on
this because this is a market that needs to sort itself out and people need to
learn but the best thing I can do is make sure there is one to compare it to
so this is the beautiful real one for you yes it’s a bit more expensive yes it
might fit you might take you one minute type of my product that’s because it’s
real and good you know and if you have to go to the BPU when you’re driving
somewhere and you get picture and you get yourself a drink
and there’s all kinds of combat sure and for fears and whatnot available you know
at least you can come and find the real one when when you want it totally
settled down and being like you know what there’s a place in a time and I’ve
got a book out there that teaches you to do it if you want to buy the grains from
you or me how do workshops I offer the knowledge freely and
and also the product some people don’t want to make it themselves and they
can’t do it can keep doing what they’re doing ribbons like you know teaching and
talking will change a little bit people will be starting to want better quality
yes I think you hit the nail on the head there show and I’m totally with you I
think them to make the missing piece of this puzzle is that the consumer could
potentially be very confused and not have the right information to decipher
what the real deal is versus a product that is more processed and doesn’t
contain the same benefits and I think one way that industry could deal with it
and we have that discussion with the DHS to actually put onto the label the
percentage of the active so for instance if it’s kombucha because the way they
get around the alcohol legislation is too heavily dilute the product so for
instance getting companies to actually put down this product is 10% water kefir
or at 15% kombucha and then that will give clarity to the consumer well
shann’s product is a hundred percent this is the fermentor ii versus another
product that’s mainstream that’s on the supermarket shelf that might be five
percent so then that gives them you know I think it’s it’s needed from a almost a
trade practices false and misleading legislation so hopefully industry does
wake up to this and they put in place some new labeling rules around what you
can actually call kombucha or kefir because the other thing is caffeine
kombucha I think they can only really be made with the cultures whether it’s a
keffiyeh grains or a kombucha scoby now we’re seeing products entering the
market using yogurt cultures for instance to make keffiyeh very cheaply
it’s a my you could call this anything because there’s a lot of bacteria it’s
bacterial things promoting orange juice they just
adding probiotics 20 things like getting primitive so you like fiber fiber went
through a stage like that without adding fiber oh yeah calcium in milk extra
vitamin what was it D so you can things like that that um you can spend time
being sort of like frustrated angry and then you’re like well gosh where does it
begin why don’t people know more about their food hmm
it would hopefully come from up above but they’re also very there are also
people in our community and they don’t know either so even though I said I’m
learning because we have a lot of people come into the factory all the time to
see if we’re doing it properly and then generally very very afraid of what we’re
doing like you know sauerkraut I mean yes the labeling is fine but you don’t
realize what you if you’re going to make a lot of setup crap can you hear me
right with that it’s fine perfectly fine yeah the initial reaction to our
sauerkraut making was horror almost got closed down you need to as soon as they
think of a vegetable that’s shouldn’t something that’s going to be shredded
and then packed into bags and sold like coleslaw or to another manufacturer to
do something with it so the rule of shredded cabbage is that you would shred
it and as soon as you how do you have to make it a blank slate by not just
washing it in water but adding a citric acid or a bleach essentially to the
cabbage because there’ll be no bacteria on it then and then you can start with
your recipe so I’ll be like my recipes just cabbage and salt no salt a blank
slate nothing is going to happen why am I allowed to buy raw cabbage in
Cole’s and eat it however I want to you know
like they can cut a cabbage up in repeting glad rack and sell it like that
why is that dangerous you know they’re not bleaching that so it was very all of
a sudden became like how can I do as you say when I can see so many variances of
this rule and I’m growing bacteria on this that is the rule cut
sprinkled probiotic powder on there and then your rash you know we didn’t want
to do it that way so we had to get a lot of testing and a hasip plan and so fine
it’s a lot of paperwork and you can pay someone to write your hassle for you but
you have to have a factory designed so that everything flows properly and
that’s been the expensive thing for us it’s taken us all this time really to
get really are we still with had our house up in theory checked off not yet
see the practice part for a small business we do not see that this is the
safest way totally it’s it’s such a flawed system because you look at
companies like nationally organics or the fermentor II and we where we’ve got
hasser plans extremely expensive heavily regulated and then you’ve got eBay guys
or Etsy guys or all these other companies that don’t have to go through
the scrutiny and these guys are unregulated guys from home but look
that’s that’s a story for another day it is extremely frustrating and you got obviously need to work out our
responsibility now it’s very different to five years ago now it’s more we want
to make sure we’re doing it right so that other people are trained in a way
to do it as well however like I said most industry is after cheaper faster
and more that’s how we got here in the first place and the first things you
have been cut out in industrialization was where things that they couldn’t make
faster which was fermented foods so it’s a prime example of a pickle right people
that’s why when I give them a lacto-fermented people and they’re like
temple for that sour with no vinegar you know
it’s much easier much easier you could get any kind of cucumber and vinegar it
you know we need to have thick-skinned ones we need to take the flowering end
of weaves all these things I understand it’s better to do it with vinegar for a
financial point of view and then you heat it up so you’ve got this vinegar is
in effect imitating the sour flavor that you get naturally from let go children
changing naturally you know and then you’ve got all this beautiful life and
you feel good you know straight away people often go that’s pretty salty and
that’s not as what I’m used to and the gut bacteria would change and you’ve got
you got bacteria telling you what you want that’s right we’ll get them from
the inside out so we’re pretty much coming up the tables we were such good
flow let’s segue now to something a little bit more actionable for people
listening now let’s talk about you know people at home that want to start on a
ferment so are you able to suggest a nice easy one to start and how would
they make it because right now in anyone’s home this thing they probably
had carrots in their fridge everyone has them in the bottom drawer the fridge so
all you need to do is have a jar or some kind of a vessel even if it’s just an
open bars pottery thing don’t clean those carrots cut them into either
circles if you think you’d like to eat them like that or place if you want to
dip them into hummus or sticks pretty easy and you’ll pop them into the jar
and then you’ll get maybe a leader it’s easy to measure a liter of water and put
a tablespoon of salt in that and I’m not a
person who boils the water to dissolve the salt I’m too lazy you know so just
get normal water but the best salt is sea salt local sea salt I’m not one to
recommend chipping away at the Himalayan to get the salt from there we’re
straight on an island so we’re surrounded by sea salt so get your sea
salt and make sure it’s nice and fine and that way it’ll dissolve and you
don’t need to heat the water up anyway you’ll get that brine so that’s your
brine pour it over your carrots that could be it if you wanted it to be and
you know cover that and make sure they’re there underneath the brine but
flavoring a brine is pretty fun thing and easy a couple of black peppercorns
some mustard seeds and these things also have antibacterial properties so they
you know mustard seeds are well known for that it’ll help keep the brine a
little bit balanced if it needs to be fresh ginger will do that for you as
well I don’t like ginger carrots personally
but coriander seeds mustard seeds maybe a bit of dill something like that
coriander root and then just leave it and carrots are fast if you put that in
Monday you’ll have them by Thursday or Friday Wow yeah and that’s the thing you
don’t wanna then you’ll need to refrigerate them and that’s why I going
back to where we began with that house in Denmark if only we all had this room
you know that was sits around five degrees all year just top things in
that’s what we used to have now now with carrots they really don’t want them to
keep fermenting because they they lose their crispness quite easily it get a
bit of slimy they can get that com used on the top and if you’re trying to learn
and convert your friends slimy ye steam soft carrots away taste it taste it
it should be nicely sour and brighter orange than when you started which is
pretty amazing mm-hm they’re great things to put into
lunchboxes just like if you think about the Japanese bento they will always put
something sour and fermented to preserve the lunchbox during the day I haven’t
got any proof maybe you can even enlighten us cribben but I feel like
when I put something fermented like a carrot stick in a lunchbox it’s safer totally uh who was it I had someone on
my podcast recently telling me about the history of of sushi and how yeah how the
actual the sushi was actually a fermented product to keep the product
around it was so because the fermentation would the rice and then the
protein sitting on top preserved it so I wouldn’t be surprised if you added this
this good bacteria into the lunchbox itself
yes that’s it because I lactobacilli will get in there and start producing
all these antibiotic compounds that then increase the preservative life of the
actual food part in the natural way of course which is amazing yeah that’s it going at it with a sense of joy and
Wonder not to be like too preachy but instead of fear because they let me be
like oh my didn’t work you know I’m like no how many time have you made a cake
that was dry like give it a go it’s something you haven’t seen growing up
you’re always told everything should go in the fridge you know I know I’m saying
to you take the milk out Adam if a little Casillas baby let it sit on your
bench for two days I know it’s fun but how else do you think we use milk before
refrigeration which is by the way not very old home refrigeration is so new
totally parallel think like about the home refrigeration situation how new
that is and how it survived this long and yes people might have become sick
sometimes but they’re getting sick now I think more mmm serious so the current
recipe is you know it’s a it’s a pickle recipe really but it’s one that’s pre
fail-safe and you can do that with beans green beans a fabulous broad beans
he means beautiful snacking foods to have brewing away on your kitchen bench
and and pop them in on the table when your friends are over and just nibble at
these things and start adding them into your life without any fear or guilt or
like I should be doing this I’m taking this with my gut bacteria just to
remember that we it was like a generation or two that got rid of these
foods because they had marjorine and white bread and they didn’t know better
now we do and it’s up to us to bring it back because I read somewhere it only
takes two generations to lose something you know and we haven’t lost it
and what a great time to be alive that we’ve got this knowledge we know what
plastics do we know to stop all this stuff and to slow down
so what don’t be depressed about it you know it’s like lucky us we have power we
can change things yeah maybe just by making carrots make
mud Carrie what I love about you Sharon is just the positive mindset and the
positive approach and sometimes I can be a bit cynical in my own mind but I
really appreciate you shining your positivity on this conversation and I
think you’ve given us some amazing practical tips and I’m gonna try out
these these carrots yeah I’m gonna give this carrot to go and I’ll let you know
how it goes cut them in the round just a little bit you know a disc you put a
little dish you want to nibble at something popping one in your mouth you
know it’s just less annoying for the people who are under you by the way and
then we’re growing up and for the kids I didn’t in plates and they just we’re
pretty much very simple everything and they’re you incredible busy and you’ve
got some some new team members coming on board today so when I get you back to
your your regular job but just before we finish if there is one thing that
someone could do for their gut health what would that be shy everyone asks me that I really believe
in the power of look Katie what a keffiyeh yeah a milk Fe oh yes milk
kefir Wow I’m drinking my water kefir I love wooden kefir to pieces I have seen
so many people’s lives changed from your cooking I can’t even and I don’t like to
being that one that’s a whole other Padma so many people’s lives change from
milk kefir if you’ve got your own Scobie and your make it yourself we can find a
way to have a co-op and buy it from someone else it’s magic it is magical
we’re on the same page there and I’m not sure that we’ve spoken about this but
I’m embarking on a clinical study on milk kefir because it is I I’m with you
it is it is the most miraculous food in my mind from a scientific perspective on
the planet yes not the supermarket stuff the one it’s not totally and from my
research the benefits of milk kefir actually lie in not so much the bacteria
but the functional peptides that the bacteria produce and if you look at the
studies the functional peptides are what we call molecular mimicry
so they mimic a lot of the pharmaceutical drugs so if you think
about you know having 10 to 15 of these these peptides in the product that can
for instance be antihypertensive so lower your blood pressure or
antimicrobial meaning killing bacteria or lowing blood sugars and you’ve got
all this in a product that takes 45 minutes to make I’m sorry 24 hours to
make it home prep time is like literally three seconds add milk to it leave it
for 24 hours and you’ve got this product that you can make for the rest of your
life from one packet of milk kefir grains
and yes and you can mean gosh also people who struggle to drink the
milk kefir there’s so many ways to make it delicious I mean for me yeah I heard
that there’s tryptophan in it which I think if you often recommend people
you’re beginning and I know that I really they’re not fond of the texture
they don’t usually drink dairy and I always say just before bed a shot glass
yeah because we are a giant tube right yeah literally so you have to keep doing
this and this is not something you go I had some of that last week this is
remember we’re a tube and everything has to keep going in all the time because
it’s gonna go out all the time but Milka see if you have it at night at least it
seems laying flash and do some work and actually it’s tryptophan so you’re going
to go to sleep and your body’s relaxed when your body’s relaxed it does a lot
of great stuff detoxing building and you finger sing inhaling so that’s my first
thing I’d be like you pick and make your own little kaffir I mean my daughter’s
going away an exchange to France and she said that’s one of the things in a you
know in a jar Mikey happy milk a fear because it helps with acne when Roger he
was my partner now but he joined as a chef
early on said the fermentor e he was taking what he called her kept her for
happen yes puts on pump inhibitors it was it was just taking him all the time
when he what happened and he also had reflux his burping and I was like whoa
whoa you work here you know you can’t have you can’t be taking that and he
didn’t like the milk appear he was like I don’t like drinking my goat’s cheese he was drinking he would have
a 750 ml bottle sitting on the bench as he was working drink the whole thing I
kid you not it’s been 5 years and he hasn’t had that medicine since and every
time he lets it go he you know gets lazy we don’t have it in the house or
whatever he’ll get it back and just you know get the milk if he round again and
I’ve heard so many stories like that even for pizza and them to inflame the
arthritis and their bones or whatever and people feed them milk their grains
mm-hmm sometimes I just have to slow down because I don’t want to sound so
romantic about things you know but and then when people ask them like no I
can’t tell you because I don’t want to sound like it needs to happen it needs
to happen because no pharmaceutical company is gonna invest in that because
it’s so cheap for one packet of greens that a customer buys once in their
lifetime I mean a $20 lifetime value whereas you got pharmaceutical drugs
that you spend getting a thousand hundreds of thousands essentially in a
lifetime so it just doesn’t make sense for a pharmaceutical company to invest
in that or nor would they so I thought well we’re gonna do it maybe hopefully
because diabetes is a huge issue so that’s what we’re hoping to get the you
know the funding from the government to actually help us with the trial because
obviously you know milk Fe is great for things like diabetes and anxiety and
depression they’re very topical and huge problems
our society faces so let’s do something about that and when they get into the
milk kefir they’re saying I don’t spread this word but it’s an appetite
suppressant all right it’s totally it does that you could have a big glass of
milk here in the morning and literally not even remember that it’s lunch and
it’s two o’clock wait oh because if you know the other
thing is you can make smoothies with it that if you’ve got a green smoothie and
you put milk kefir in it it will stay green for a couple of days doesn’t go
Brown put it banana in it because there’s antioxidants in there the things
that taste good in milk kefir are also really good for you like cinnamon
cinnamon is great for your blood it just seems to match with things that are good
for you I hope you can get that through and there’s anything I can do
thanks June no absolutely let’s keep talking about how we can collaborate and
get this word out there because we both know it’s transformed both our lives but
and both are lies Apparel really parallel since that 2011-2012 and the
gaps diet is so much similarities Sharon I want to thank you so much for coming
in to this podcast it’s such a wonderful conversation I really enjoyed it but
then be a stranger and let’s catch up pretty soon listen Sharon Flynn thank
you so much thank you

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